Subject: Re: Epicmusictime! Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:53 pm
"It's a brand new day, and the sun is high, all the birds are singing that you're gonna die!"
Alternately:
"Any dolt with half a brain, can see that human kind has gone insane, to the point where I don't know if I'll upset the status quo, if I throw poison in the water main.."
Or:
"A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do, don't plan the plan if you can't follow through..."
Subject: Re: Epicmusictime! Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:52 am
Deus Otiosus wrote:
Mangatsika wrote:
I noticed on the 'pages that some of you were hating on rap music.
I can understand, but only because you guys haven't heard Shad.
Rhythmically Assisted Poetry
video
Or
Really Atrocious Puke
Well hey, if you wanna take the time to listen to it with an open mind, really listen to the message and the meaning behind the lyrics, and still don't like it, then I really can't call you for anything.
But, if you are going to straight away judge it for what genre of music it falls under, and not for the song itself, then you have a problem. Being opinionated and ignorant is a horrible combination, and really doesn't say much in favour of your character.
Saying Shad's songs are atrocious, that they are puke, is a horribly formulated statement, with no reasoning behind it. I think that if you really take some time and at least read the lyrics, you can get something from it.
Subject: Re: Epicmusictime! Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:37 am
Aree't'sa wrote:
Mangatsika wrote:
"Meritless babble"? I guess you just don't understand it. Sure, you use big words, but anyone can use a thesaurus.
I don't need to "understand" something to know it's excrement.
Excrement is excrement, whether it comes from the mouth of a 1337 ub3r k00l gangsta or the back orfice of a cow.
I don't "understand" "Climate Change" either, and it's pretty obvious that's excrement as well.
At this point, it's not even a difference of opinions anymore; you are objectively wrong.
Again, Shad is no 'gangsta'. A quote form one of his songs: "I ain't no hard-hustling muscle man thug on the curb / the only time I use a bullet is in Microsoft Word." - Wild
Also, it is extremely cynical/douchey to call words of encouragement, inspiration and hope "excrement." I don't know what kind of superiority complex you have, but being that much of a jerk isn't going to help anyone. Especially not you. I don't hate you for it, but I pity you. And I know that for people who think they're better than everyone else, pity is worse than hate.
Thirdly, about what you said: "I don't need to "understand" something to know it's excrement." This is especially horrifying. It is ignorance in its purest form. And everyone knows that ignorance is the worst thing there is.
Subject: Re: Epicmusictime! Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:20 am
Mangatsika wrote:
At this point, it's not even a difference of opinions anymore; you are objectively wrong.
Because obviously everything you like is right.
Mangatsika wrote:
Again, Shad is no 'gangsta'. A quote form one of his songs: "I ain't no hard-hustling muscle man thug on the curb / the only time I use a bullet is in Microsoft Word." - Wild
Explain to me again why I give a stuff what your pet rapper says? Rap is garbage, that "poem" of yours was garbage, 2+2=scheisse.
Mangatsika wrote:
Also, climate change does exist.
When the best evidence you have for something is "it does so" it probably isn't real. Even if it is, too bad, by 2075 we'll be moving to Mars anyway, and I think you'll find "green" technologies like biofuels and electric cars are much, much worse than the existing ones.
Mangatsika wrote:
Also, it is extremely cynical/douchey to call words of encouragement, inspiration and hope "excrement." I don't know what kind of superiority complex you have, but being that much of a jerk isn't going to help anyone. Especially not you. I don't hate you for it, but I pity you. And I know that for people who think they're better than everyone else, pity is worse than hate.
Aww, does someone not respect your FEEEEELIINGSS on the internet? Obviously you should call them names.
If you think this is "hate" you've got a dire need to check a dictionary.
"Hate" is molotov cocktails through car windows. "Hate" is dragging people out of their houses and chopping their heads off in the streets. "Hate" is killing the men and raping the women, because their race doesn't deserve to share a planet with yours. "Hate" is hooking a car battery up to someone's privates because they dared to disapprove of your tax policy.
"Hate" is lynch mobs in the streets, not someone disliking your frakkingstupid excuse for a "song"!
Mangatsika wrote:
Thirdly, about what you said: "I don't need to "understand" something to know it's excrement." This is especially horrifying. It is ignorance in its purest form. And everyone knows that ignorance is the worst thing there is.
Not when you're talking about deep soul empathic hippy nonsense "understanding". It's not "art", there's nothing to "understand", it's a garbage "poem" being muttered in time to stupid music.
But oh no, I hate it because I'm RASIST and because I don't understand it.
As for "worst thing there is", I think you need to get off your hippy high-horse and take a walk over to africa. There's no "ignorance" over there, they know exactly what they're doing and they don't give a (condemnation). If you want to feel morally superior because you're so hypocritically "even-handed", you go over to africa and you do something about it that won't cause me to advocate blasting half the frakking continent off the face of the earth even more than I already do, but don't you dare go about saying that people who don't like your, did I mention frakkingstupid, favorite song are worse than Pol Pot.
Subject: Re: Epicmusictime! Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:58 am
Aree't'sa wrote:
...
It's the principle of the thing. Sure, you can dislike the music. Sure, you can spend your time formulating arguments on why you hate it. Sure, it's a difference of opinions.
However:
I was reading through your argument and I find many contradictions.
You say I am calling you names, you are calling me names.
You say my argument for climate change is just a statement, you argument against climate change was just a statement.
Hate is not only expressed through actions, it is also expresses through words and feelings. Your words against Shad and his music were hateful.
"Because obviously everything you like is right." Yes. Yes it is. That's why I like it. What I was saying was objectively wrong was your attitude towards the artist, his music and the medium.
I never called you a racist. I never said you were worse than Pol Pot. But, I guess, there are just some things some people don't want to understand.
I do my best to be fair. To give everyone an equal chance. To let reason control my arguments. To learn about each side before taking a stance. I am not an ignorant person. And don't go telling people empathy is worthless.
Enough with that clumsy response to whatever you said. What I really want to know is this:
I post a song you don't like. You don't say something like, "I don't really like this." Instead, you attack it. Call it "meritless babble." But why?
I can see only one reason: You went ahead and criticized it the way you did was because it is rap music. Simply because of the way the artist is relaying his message, his thoughts, his feelings, you attack it.
At least, I hope so, since the only other thing you could have been attacking was the message, and having a problem against hope is much worse than having a problem against rap.
But anyway, this is a big attitude problem. Sure, you can call me a "hippy" or whatever for caring about humanity. But in the end, I know I am a better person for it.
I fully recognize your pride. You've come this far, you can't back down. I know the internet is not a place to have a good argument, so much empathy and understanding is lost when we can't see each other. But, for the sake of everyone else here, I'm going to go ahead and end this argument. You can provoke me all you want, I will be the better man and step down.
Congrats. You won the argument, but lost at humanity. I hope you feel good about yourself.
Last edited by Mangatsika on Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Subject: Re: Epicmusictime! Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:30 pm
Mangatsika wrote:
You say I am calling you names, you are calling me names.
Wrong. I'm calling your pet rapper an idiot, though I'm starting to have my doubts about you.
Mangatsika wrote:
You say my argument for climate change is just a statement, you argument against climate change was just a statement.
Excuse me? I'm not the one claiming it's real. The burden of proof does not lie on me, it rests upon you. You're the one advocating a massive scam.
Mangatsika wrote:
Hate is not only expressed through actions, it is also expresses through words and feelings. Your words against Shad and his music were hateful.
"Hateful" would be "I hate this song because it'snigger music". I dislike that song because it's completely lacking in anything resembling merit, which directly suggests the same of the author.
Mangatsika wrote:
Yes. Yes it is. That's why I like it. What I was saying was objectively wrong was your attitude towards the artist, his music and the medium.
Rap is not art, any more than a smear of feces on a canvas is art. Just because you like something does not automatically make everyone who dislikes it wrong.
Critics really go for the above-mentioned excrement canvas. Doesn't mean they're right.
Mangatsika wrote:
I never called you a racist.
Not explicitly, but it's definitely implied in the term "hateful".
Mangatsika wrote:
I never said you were worse than Pol Pot.
Yes you did. You said there's nothing worse than ignorance, and that I'm ignorant. That would suggest that simple genocide is a much lesser crime than ignorance, since, if you want to commit genocide, it's a pretty safe bet you know exactly what you're doing.
Mangatsika wrote:
I do my best to be fair. To give everyone an equal chance. To let reason control my arguments. To learn about each side before taking a stance. I am not an ignorant person.
Bollocks.
Mangatsika wrote:
At this point, it's not even a difference of opinions anymore; you are objectively wrong.
Dictionary.com wrote:
...not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion...
Mangatsika wrote:
"Because obviously everything you like is right." Yes. Yes it is. That's why I like it. What I was saying was objectively wrong was your attitude towards the artist, his music and the medium.
Subject: Re: Epicmusictime! Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:02 pm
Mangatsika wrote:
I post a song you don't like. You don't say something like, "I don't really like this." Instead, you attack it. Call it "meritless babble." But why?
I can see only one reason: You went ahead and criticized it the way you did was because it is rap music. Simply because of the way the artist is relaying his message, his thoughts, his feelings, you attack it.
Didn't listen to more than 5 seconds worth of that babble. Don't care what it's about. Rap, by definition of what makes it rap, by the conventions of the genre and lord knows what else, irritates me. I don't know why. I don't care why. It's probably that pounding whateverthefrakitis that gets inside my chest and fraks with my heart rate while simultaneously giving me a whopping headache.
There is absolutely nothing on God's green earth that can send me flying off the handle faster than a rap "song". Some things have the potential to make me much angrier, but nothing does it faster.
The rhythms, the background tracks, the lyrical conventions, everything about rap could not possibly be calculated better to piss me off.
It's not music.
It's not art.
It's not meaningful.
I listen to music because I like it. Quite a lot of it I don't like.
I don't listen to music I don't like.
I don't give a flip what the "meaning" of a song is. I don't give a flip who the "artist" is.
Now, if I come across, say, a "Lady GaGa" "song", without realizing it, and listen to the first five seconds, well, I'll go "bleah" and close the tab.
If I come across a rap song, well, it's right off the handle then and there, boyo.
Now, usually, that's not a problem; it just bleeds off over the next few minutes.
Assuming nobody comes along and claims it has artistic merit.
Mangatsika wrote:
At least, I hope so, since the only other thing you could have been attacking was the message, and having a problem against hope is much worse than having a problem against rap. ... Congrats. You won the argument, but lost at humanity. I hope you feel good about yourself.
Oh, here we go again with the hippie logic.
Just because something is garbage doesn't mean the "message" (for people who care about that sort of rubbish) is garbage. Just because something has artistic merit, doesn't mean the "message" has merit.
I don't doubt "Avatar" is a fine movie, by the standards of CG animation, but from what I've heard, the "message" is utter and total scheisse in the classic Greenpeace "save a world that doesn't need saving" vein.
